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Post by lonewolf on Oct 21, 2005 14:25:10 GMT 9.5
dreams. ahh..
remember that you dont always get the cards you want, and dreams can really help alot. the best use is to increase hand size. i think it is better than trying to force a vampire so you can draw for an intercept card. cycling always helps.
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Post by Nightfall on Oct 21, 2005 15:16:26 GMT 9.5
It's even better to just tune the nonmaster portion of the deck. Having the right mix of transient and permanent effects can negate the need for extra flush or cycling tech. If you have the right numbers, you can choose to cycle as quickly or as slowly as you like in order to manage your hand, and you can trust the deck to give you what you need when you need it.
Dreams is good if you have master slots to spare, but if there are master cards competing for the slot, Dreams should be the first to go.
And another observation: I think that the 3 remaining seductions could be changed into 2 more Second Traditions and another Conditioning. Seeing how this deck performed, I think it would be optimal to play up the wall and opportunist angles.
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Post by Smooth Operator on Oct 21, 2005 22:41:21 GMT 9.5
The SL tourney made me see how walling up and waiting for people to tap out could be exploited.
Why do you think I got the Eagle's Sight from you in the first place? I chucked the seductions for more slots. I added another gun, another Eagle's Sight, another concealed weapon and the last slot, I'll see if Learjet helps as flush-tech. Though if I had another magic of the smith, I'd need to find space for that too...
I chucked Depravity. In it's place I am trying to decide between Fragment of the book of Nod, The Barrens or Elder Library.
Another thing to consider would be Seeds of Corruption. That would annoy the shit out of people. And Curmudgeon for Lucas or Anastaz.
I will experiment with side strikes and see whether lessening the manuevers is viable.
I have no more 2nd trads to play with, though if I had some more I could retool this.
Argh. I like guns. Need more guns. Guns are the shit.
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Post by Smooth Operator on Oct 21, 2005 23:02:18 GMT 9.5
Or Hell, since I only have one anyway I could drop the magic of the smith for another card.
15 masters. Well I just don't like the possibilty of Master hand jam.
Rutor's... I still argue its value since I rely on a big crypt in all likelihood I can only bring out 2 vamps, and even then I'm already in danger. I need more bang for my pool, since what makes good decks in general work is the number of actions it can perform in a single turn. For big vamps with fortitude, they rely on Freak Drives to do it. For those with THA, we got Rutor's. The earlier I get it on someone, the more effective the deck should be at moving forward. I mean, I was able to oust my prey in the SL with a Rutor'd Lucas getting his pulse on, then governing and conditioning.
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Post by Smooth Operator on Oct 22, 2005 23:05:17 GMT 9.5
It's even better to just tune the nonmaster portion of the deck. Having the right mix of transient and permanent effects can negate the need for extra flush or cycling tech. If you have the right numbers, you can choose to cycle as quickly or as slowly as you like in order to manage your hand, and you can trust the deck to give you what you need when you need it. Dreams is good if you have master slots to spare, but if there are master cards competing for the slot, Dreams should be the first to go. And another observation: I think that the 3 remaining seductions could be changed into 2 more Second Traditions and another Conditioning. Seeing how this deck performed, I think it would be optimal to play up the wall and opportunist angles. Right. Now. I've gone and ditched sideslips altogether and added Fame to the mix. The Elder Library and Magic of the Smith are the cards that really could go either way. Now I have 15 masters, and my only concern is master handjam... But hopefully the mix of cards is right to make things happen. Deck Name: Tremere Badasses... Created By: Me Description: Screw politics, it`s all about starting shit up! The Texan and Russian gear up and just mess with the people beside them... Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 12, Max: 40, Avg: 6.91) ---------------------------------------------- 4 Lucas Halton qui AUS CEL DOM THA 10 Tremere 3 Anastaszdi Zagreb ani cel dom AUS THA 8 Tremere 1 Volker pot CEL 5 Brujah 1 Ohanna dom 2 Malkavian 1 Mustafa Rahman dom 2 Tremere 1 Muaziz aus dom for THA 7 Tremere 1 Ehrich Weiss dom tha 3 Tremere Library: (90 cards) ------------------- Master (15 cards) 4 Blood Doll 1 Chantry 1 Arcane Library 1 Celerity 1 Erciyes Fragments, The 1 KRCG News Radio 2 Dreams of the Sphinx 1 Rack, The 1 Elder Library 2 Fame Action (13 cards) 2 Pulse of the Canaille 4 Rutor`s Hand 1 Aranthebes, The Immortal 5 Govern the Unaligned 1 Magic of the Smith Action Modifier (3 cards) 3 Conditioning Reaction (16 cards) 8 Second Tradition: Domain, The 4 Deflection 4 Eagle`s Sight Combat (34 cards) 4 Psyche! 4 Pursuit 7 Theft of Vitae 5 Blur 5 Concealed Weapon 3 Flash --> I'll see if this would be better as pursuits. 4 Side Strike 2 Preternatural Evasion Equipment (9 cards) 6 .44 Magnum 1 Ivory Bow 1 Bowl of Convergence 1 Learjet This deck was last saved at 9:30:19 PM on 10/22/2005
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Post by Nightfall on Oct 24, 2005 3:40:35 GMT 9.5
15 Masters is a lot. Just think: that's one in every six cards, and this deck will very probably cycle more than six cards per turn and in between turns, meaning even in the unlikely case that your shuffling makes the deck as homogenous as possible, those Masters will be collecting in your hand and you will probably end up discarding a few of them anyway. Since you won't be able to use that many and they will just slow down your game, you ought to just prioritize and allot some of those card slots to more productive minion cards (like more combat), or improve your chances of drawing the stuff you need by reducing the number of cards in the deck. Check out the Master Jam Index formula at manilavtes.proboards31.com/index.cgi?board=Deck&action=display&thread=1112353579 if you like. You can play around with both the number of Masters and the deck size. I've observed that scores of 35 to 45 are typical of most combat-, intercept- or multiaction-oriented decks. Slower-cycling decks such as those that use stealth to bleed, vote or bloat, and use mostly evasive combat can afford to have higher scores.
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Post by Smooth Operator on Oct 24, 2005 11:28:15 GMT 9.5
I have a master jam index of 53.76604809 or 54! if you actually think about it. It's just 1 shy of your 55 standard. So I don't know what that means really, other than the fact it falls into what is best in most metagames, but higher than the 35-45 that is your recommendation. 12-13 masters gets me going under 45.
But this deck by it's nature will eventually end up with cards on hand that will become discards and jammers anyway. The guns and concealeds, for example. That is why flush-tech is needed.
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Post by Nightfall on Oct 24, 2005 15:13:40 GMT 9.5
54(!) is a bit high for what this deck wants to do, but if you have flush, it's not bad. However, my thinking is, if you know you are just going to discard a lot of that stuff (which means that the number of cards that will actually be useful to you is less than 90), why not just remove the fluff? Shrink the deck to make it cycle more reliably? I read somewhere somebody said maybe at thepathofblood.com forums that every 90-card deck can be broken down into a better 80-card deck and ten cards of fluff. I think whoever that was is right. I tried to search for the thread just now both at Path of Blood and at White Wolf. Couldn't find it. But the phrase was echoed at some other VTES forum by somebody else. www.game-tricks.net/viewtopic-208216.html
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Post by wenxiao on Mar 29, 2008 11:38:56 GMT 9.5
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